A discussion of the last blog between Sarah and I sprung another question:
If we are the Church, then can church be anywhere? And furthermore, would that make a home group bible study a church on its own? (What is the purpose of home groups?)
Please read the last blog first, as this is a trail from that blog.
My response will be given under comments.
--Janelle
thehungeryears.blogspot.com
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I think this is a good question. In college, I attended a church on Sundays, but had little to do with it the rest of the week. The majority of my time and energy was invested in InterVarsity, which I would say had replaced the "church" for me. While I loved my community, it was very homogeneous. As a college ministry, it was only made up of people in the same or similar situations as me. I think this has really hurt me out of college, largely because I now equate much of the community aspect of my relationship with God with being surrounded by people my own age. I can't really engage with people spiritually who are in different social situations than I am. And as I've begun looking for a church out of college, much of it revolves around having a young adult ministry that I can engage in. Not that young adult ministry in itself is a bad thing, but should this be the top of my priorities? Or should it be finding where I can serve the church, rather than where the church can serve me.
ReplyDeleteGood post, thanks for challenging me.
I agree with you Jeremy. And I had very much the same experience coming out of college. I did not even attend a local church regularly my first couple years of college, and finally, when I did, the church itself was made of mostly younger people and younger families.
ReplyDeleteI was gonna touch on the negative impact on just attending a small group as church, but you said my own thoughts very nicely. College ministry has a good way of keep these issues widespread.
Of course, there are the benefits of our InterVarsity experience: it lends us abilities which lead to us serving effectively in many church contexts. The challenge now is to bend and grow as we re-define community.
I'd like to add my opinion understanding that I am from an older generation. A church leader named Frank Viola, who's older than me, wrote a good article about the post-church perspective. Google it as I can't seem to be able to past the link here. He has come up with several Biblical standards as to what makes church which are The Original Language Test, The Epistle Test, The Visitation Test, The Consistency Test, The "One Another" Test, and The Purpose of God Test. Definitely worth a read in light of this conversation.
ReplyDeleteNotice I mention age a lot in my post. In my 29 years of youth ministry and maintaining relationships with these youth as they grow up (my oldest grown youth is now 42), I am noticing very strongly that this now group of 20-somethings holds themselves as the final authority. I definitely don't think this way.
Interesting, Brenda. What do you mean that we hold ourselves as the final authority? Like it's our way or the highway? If so, I think what you say is very true. I notice this a lot in people my age and in myself as well.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is we KNOW a lot, but we don't LOVE a lot. There is so much more life we need to live and so much more we need to learn from older generations.
A few thoughts on this string ...
ReplyDelete1) Protestant thought asserts that there are three marks of a (local) church: Bible teaching, sacraments, and discipline (dealing with divisiveness, heresy, members living unrepentantly in open notorious sin). You gotta wonder what our Protestant Forefathers (and mothers!) would think of a church which bailed on this last Mark (discipline).
2) I think engaging in various outside spiritual ministries such as IV can be a wonderful experience, as long as these ministries are not approached as My Local Church.
3) While studying the sociology of church(es) can certainly help us, I think we have to be careful that we do not lean too heavily on what a particular generation (Generation X, Generation Y, and Generation Who Cares) perceives as What I Need From Church. Of course churches must seek to serve all the members of their parishes as best they can with the resources they have available, but the primary concern of a local church is obeying its head, Jesus Christ. Once a community gives itself solely to meeting needs, the Lord it serves is the feelings of others. Or at least that is what I have observed, anyway.
Yes, That Girl, that is what I mean. I see 20-somethings throwing out ancient traditions and practices as well as Biblical theology to form convictions. I see passion but it comes more from a book that has been read, often written after the year 2000. Or from a popular teaching, etc. Yet the wisdom of older generations, including the ancients, is disregarded flat out.
ReplyDeleteSomehow can the passion of 20-somethings become in sync with the Church? I know both sides need to meet on this but it's hard to meet from my side when one's authority is him/herself. I believe it is hard for 20-somethings because they are jaded. Hence the reason for this blog.
Monte- yes to Jesus Christ as head. I was driving to NJ this weekend and talking to this other girl my age and talking about a book of pop theology-- and I was very critical of it even though I agreed with the overall jist of it. The book was about poverty and how American Christians suck at serving their biblical mandate to seek justice. This is something that I have taken seriously over the past few years- but have been recently challenged and jaded because the culture around me has changed from idealistic students, to practical money-making career people. But this all led me back to realize that I was MISSING THE POINT of everything. I was more interested in different cultural perspectives of the Christian faith than on Jesus Christ himself and his will. All of this to say, I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteBrenda--ha- jaded, indeed. ;)
i think we consider ourselves the final authority because we're so much smarter and wiser than the older generation....
ReplyDelete(just kidding)
I guess my question would be if the church isn't supposed to just focus on what what a particular generation wants, (which i agree it shouldn't) how does the church address the large departure of this 20 something generation from the church?
that's a really good question jeremy. i am gonna let that marinatefor awhile so I don't give some clumsy, half-thought answer.
ReplyDeleteany thoughts anyone?
Jeremy,
ReplyDeleteI think the Church could "focus" on what the 20-something's "want" but I do not think that would be productive. How much respect would you have for an institution that panders to you? The message of Christ is changeless, regardless of what generation is looking at it. I think the bigger question is, what do the 20-somethings think they know that the church doesn't? (I was a 20-something that didn't go to church because I didn't think I "needed" it. It was a direct-from-God kind of message that showed me that I did need it and thank goodness I was listening!)